2010 Q & A Round 5 Answers!

[madmac41]

1.) Have we seen all of the figures planned for the POC line? In past Q & A sessions, there were other figures that were mentioned (Crazy Legs, Saw-Viper, Helix, Zarana, Steel Brigade) as coming out with this line, but we haven't heard anymore about them them. In the press release about Sgt. Slaughter, you stated we might be getting him in late spring. Can you give us any details?

A.) You haven't seen everything yet. At this point, we are planning some great selections that we hope you love - we do. No details yet on the Sgt. Slaughter figure.

2.) While by and large the POC is fantastic, there are a few very noticeable problems, such as the females from the Resolute packs and the POC Recondo figures inability to look straight ahead (they are only able to look down), and Snow Job isn't able to hold the rifle that comes with him at all. Are there measures in place to prevent these mistakes from happening in the future?

A.) We are always working to make sure that we produce the best figures possible and we are taking all possible steps to make sure that we meet that standard.

3.) Going back to the early 2000's, the G.I. Joe teams has always been interested in fan input. They have asked for our input at cons, put polls up on gijoe.com and even started this very Q & A so we had a public forum to tell you what we wanted to see as far as characters, design changes, vehicles and play sets. But in the last two years we have noticed a change. No longer are you as approachable at the cons, no longer do you seem to want to hear what we would like to see. Instead, you seem to be following the same marketing strategy from the failed Sigma 6 line where we kept getting the same characters over and over again. Remember, without the fans, G.I. Joe wouldn't be one of the best toy lines and wouldn't have lasted for nearly 46 years. My question is: why have you seemingly turned your back on the G.I. Joe fans?

A.) Thank you for voicing your concern to us. G.I. Joe has been around since 1964 and we fully understand that part of the success of the line is the incredible commitment from fans and collectors. The shifts that you have been seeing may have been due to the development of the first major motion picture for G.I. Joe. The development of that movie and product line began back in 2007 and was a huge learning curve for the G.I. Joe team. We're sorry that you feel we are unapproachable at the cons - that is the last thing that we want to convey! We have in no way turned our back on G.I. Joe's loyal fans. You also must remember that while we want to make sure that the collectors get what they want and listen to their suggestions, we have a larger responsibility to make sure that this brand is relevant to our entire community. In order to ensure the continuing success and longevity of the brand, we have to engage a wider audience than the current fans to ensure that the G.I. Joe brand continues for years to come.

[ARROW]

Thank you for voicing your concern to us. G.I. Joe has been around since 1964 and we fully understand that part of the success of the line is the incredible commitment from fans and collectors. The shifts that you have been seeing may have been due to the development of the first major motion picture for G.I. Joe. The development of that movie and product line began back in 2007 and was a huge learning curve for the G.I. Joe team. We're sorry that you feel we are unapproachable at the cons - that is the last thing that we want to convey! We have in no way turned our back on G.I. Joe's loyal fans. You also must remember that while we want to make sure that the collectors get what they want and listen to their suggestions, we have a larger responsibility to make sure that this brand is relevant to our entire community. In order to ensure the continuing success and longevity of the brand, we have to engage a wider audience than the current fans to ensure that the G.I. Joe brand continues for years to come.

I think this particular answer should be stickyed in every G.I. Joe fan forum because it unequivocally answers the perennial question of WHY Hasbro does that it does. ( emphasis is mine} Straight from their own offices.

[kingofpain26]

Thank you for voicing your concern to us. G.I. Joe has been around since 1964 and we fully understand that part of the success of the line is the incredible commitment from fans and collectors. The shifts that you have been seeing may have been due to the development of the first major motion picture for G.I. Joe. The development of that movie and product line began back in 2007 and was a huge learning curve for the G.I. Joe team. We're sorry that you feel we are unapproachable at the cons - that is the last thing that we want to convey! We have in no way turned our back on G.I. Joe's loyal fans. You also must remember that while we want to make sure that the collectors get what they want and listen to their suggestions, we have a larger responsibility to make sure that this brand is relevant to our entire community. In order to ensure the continuing success and longevity of the brand, we have to engage a wider audience than the current fans to ensure that the G.I. Joe brand continues for years to come.

I think this particular answer should be stickyed in every G.I. Joe fan forum because it unequivocally answers the perennial question of WHY Hasbro does that it does. ( emphasis is mine} Straight from their own offices.

Totally agree!!!!

I'd like to know where the hell this question came up in the first place, as The Hasbro people have ALWAYS been approachable. (some of them even hung out with us at certain cons) not only to us rabid fans, but I saw several Hasbro employees engaging and talking to the kids both during the Hasbro tour AND during Joecon... They were Very nice to my son, and even asked him what his favorite figure was (which he unfortunately said "DUKE". Okay, so I have to work on him...lol!)


...to submit this question was almost irresponsible.. and quite selfish I Might add.

Come to think of it.. it wasn't even posted in the questions thread! So where did it come from?

[toy-nutz]

I agree with you King, who asked that question?? The Joe Team has been very approachable and open at every single JoeCon. They are always willing to listen and talk with us. I also did not like the part about Sigma 6, as that was not a failure. It sold better in it''s first year then the previous year of 3 3/4" and 12" offerings did. If it was not for the movie we would of seen Sigma and 25th on the shelf.

Michael
Bulletman Big B

[Gyre-Viper]

Between last year's incredibly generous tour and having spoken with the design team extensively at con... I really have no idea where that question is coming from.

[Leonardo T Dragon]

On a few rare occasions, questions are submitted by means other than forum posts. (PM's, emails, etc.) However, I'm going to put down a mandate in an effort to return as sense of transparency to the process: only questions posted in the thread will be submitted. If someone wishes to submit a question in private, PM me and I'll post it up in the submissions thread.

The only exception would be if, for some reason, we failed to have enough submissions to meet Hasbro's minimum requirements. At that point, I'll take a "hot topic" here on the forum and rephrase it into the form of a question.

[kingofpain26]

On a few rare occasions, questions are submitted by means other than forum posts. (PM's, emails, etc.) However, I'm going to put down a mandate in an effort to return as sense of transparency to the process: only questions posted in the thread will be submitted. If someone wishes to submit a question in private, PM me and I'll post it up in the submissions thread.

The only exception would be if, for some reason, we failed to have enough submissions to meet Hasbro's minimum requirements. At that point, I'll take a "hot topic" here on the forum and rephrase it into the form of a question.

well one reason for the 'where did it come from" isnt really the actual location.. but where did it come from in the minds of the joe fan?

This kinda sounds like someone who has NEVER been to a joecon or met a Hasbro employee in person. and if that isn't correct, and they HAVE been to one..why do they feel that way?

It doesn't seem to reflect the more hands-on collector, but more accurately the solitary one.

They used the term 'WE", when it obviously means "Me" (although I'm sure there are other joe fans who feel they are not listened to)
But ANYONE who has been to a Joecon, or ToyFair,... cannot really say that.

I remember at Toy Fair, the FIRST thing the Joe Hasbro Rep said when we saw the figures firsthand... was "So,.. what do you guys think"?, I also remember the 30 minute conversation I had with the Marvel Rep, (who seems to know EXACTLY who Madmac is,...lol!) and the conversation with the Joe rep between me, Him and Fran, (the proprietor of Hisstank) about realism in the joe designs (which we are getting in POC)

...not to mention the times the Hasbro guys hang out with joe fans at Joecon (Im not talking in the dealers room, but at the BAR) and the wonderful convos we have with both Old and New Joe Employees.

I feel whomever asked this... really needs to come to Joecon this year... not just to mingle with other fans.. but to ask this question DIRECTLY to the Joe rep.

[Sonneilon]

I can see both sides of the coin on this one. Yeah, Hasbro needs to cater to the larger audience (kids) but at the same time, the collectors and the 'old' folks who play with their toys DO have a clue what can sell. There's a balance and while if I were head of Hasbro, I might not take a lot of character suggestions too seriously, but I'd at least take a look. I'm pretty sure that VenMax wasn't that popular or cool with the kids. Seems to me POC is doing pretty good with selection and design but that might not be 'kiddy' enough for Hasbro, y'know?

I think it'd be more interesting in creating iconic characters or rather, new iconic characters that kids will remember. Making a ton of versions isn't always the answer either. Look at the original Star Wars trilogy. We didn't need Darth Vader this, Darth Vader that for him to always be in our head. Or Luke, Leia, Chewie, Kenobi, etc. I wonder what would happen if Hasbro G.I. Joe changed their core.

[ARROW]

I can see both sides of the coin on this one. Yeah, Hasbro needs to cater to the larger audience (kids) but at the same time, the collectors and the 'old' folks who play with their toys DO have a clue what can sell

I disagree............to a point, and I think Hasbro would disagree, to a point as well, that collectors know what can sell.
The example I can supply comes from Hasbro itself, AND from G.I.Joe too boot: their failed 40th Anniversary 12" figure line.
The very idea had been bandied about in collectors circles for years prior, the project was headed up by a collector hired on to be a marketing manager at Hasbro, and the sets themselves were EXCELLENT product.
But they bombed at retail.
They bombed so badly that new product in the line was dumped at retail via discount pricing.
It was a serious sales fiasco and I believe it led to a considerable wariness when it came to consulting fans.
The advice that fans and collectors gave Hasbro ran along the lines of nostalgia being a firmly set-in trend in the market, that G.I. Joe had legions of fans, and that a well packaged and presented product would sell even if the price-point was a bit on the high side.

<BBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ> Epic fail.

The product was advertised, stores dedicated end-dumps and specifically-marked shelf space, and word-of-mouth was rampant amongst fans--and again, it was almost exactly what fans asked for.
And then the reality of fandom kicked in: fans are cheapskates, and they are fickle. Its less a damning indictment of fans than a truism--like any other demographic we prefer something for nothing or more for less, if we can get it.
The $50 price-tag on the 40th sets was just too high, and "fans" baulked. When it came time to walk the talk, fan resolve burst like a soap bubble--all the chatter about desire meant nothing.
Now, granted the retailers were plainly skittish about this product too....despite its quality.......they expected a run on the stuff and it did not happen. The retailers saw that the supposed trend of nostalgia was an exaggeration and realized that the audience for this stuff just wasn't there, so they divested themselves of the stuff and discounted the sets from about $50 down to about $15. That was 6 years ago, in 2004.
Since then, if you look at how Hasbro has marketed G. I. Joe specifically, its been quite timid and reserved.
The 25th Anniversary line was only supposed to be the first two boxed sets--that was it. That they sold out very fast was the impetus to continue the line--Hasbro stated as much. They waited to see what the response was, before continuing, and when they say said response they still moved cautiously.

How much discussion over the past few years has there been about a USS Flagg or Terrordrome set? Or about a Skystriker?
Plenty, right?

More than enough to ASSUME that interest MIGHT be there.........but alas.....Hasbro will not go there. I think its because they fully remember the 40th Anniversary line and the faux-"demand" that fans had there-and they don;t want to be burned again.
The reference seems to be supported by the apparent sluggish sales of two ROC items: the PITT and the Night Raven jet--both the "largest items in the ROC line--and yet both have seen discounts to move those items from store. Not a good reference to have in mind when considering large items for future slots in the toy line. Even having a TV tie-in like Renegades might not break-out the toy-line out of its restrained trends. Big toys DO sell.......look at Star Wars ( but that is Star Wars, right?), but they don't seem to sell with G.I.Joe--no matter how cool they are. It just seems like the safer, more sure-fire tact is to go with figures as the base-line and a mix of small and medium-sized vehicles--despite what the hue and cry from fans and collectors seems to be.


There was once a quote attributed to a Hasbro exec from the RAH era that went something like " Fans and collectors are a fly on the elephant's @$$."--the sentiment being that fans are a dedicated demographic, but there's just not enough of them--so their buzzing kind of doesn't go very far. We like to think we matter...........really matter because we have such a devout emotional investment in the property, but the reality seems to be that what WE want isn't always what sells.

[Sonneilon]

The 12". LOL. Never was into that stuff.

I was thinking more conceptually. Like, we have ideas of what would be cool. Most of the theme year stuff (2002-2005) didn't fare that well, y'know. We know the fans had NO input on that (well, ok, public support got the o-rings back during JvC and Drew's campaign to get Recondo a real hat seemed to have worked) but I think a majority of the collector base wouldn't have gone for Valor vs Venom as a concept. Certainly some of the ideas that were being kicked around like VenMax, Coil Crushers, that horrid Nite Adder plane, etc could've been fleshed out better with input from the fans (even if Hasbro didn't actually listen).

Sure, we know from DTC that the fanbase can't support the line.

Personally, I'd take the input from the collectors. "We want a cool swamp fighter that's a good guy. He should have a machete, couple of guns, have a decent design, throw in a snake, blah blah blah." And there are always ways to kid-ify it. If I don't like it, the idea is thrown out. I think the POC is pretty good. I do feel it's a bit heavy with pushing the core, but the idea of some of the Joes in different environmental gear is great. I'm guessing that the fans have been asking (not so much pushing about it) Hasbro to throw the idea around. I'd like to see more characters get the POC treatment but I guess with Renegades around the corner, that's the next concept/theme.

Lastly, the whole Delta+ vehicle thing, isn't the biggest problem with that cost? Cost to design, create the molds, manufacture and produce? I'm one of the few that really could care less about the Skystriker and TerrorDrome (I'm quite content with the Thunderwing). Those big ticket items are a pretty large gamble. The ROC PIT was a joke to me, no way I'd go near that thing. Still, I'd be willing to listen to what the fans want. Nothing wrong with that. It's whether actions are taken to produce an item.

[ARROW]

Have you notice the one big thing about POC??

Its military themeing is essentially non-existent. Its thrown its design hat squarely into the arena of pure military fantasy, and strongly influenced by game designs--there isn't a realistic military design in POC--save for the COBRA Shock -Viper--who looks like a SWAT police guy. Little wonder that POC seems to be so popular and striking a chord with people......and you know one of the recurring demands that I have heard fans ask of the Joe designers??
They want more REALISTICALLY-designed characters.
And yet POC steps pretty far away from that.
It almost feels like the directive was given to the designers to go ahead and design the kind of stuff THEY would want, irrespective of any other marketing or consumer concerns.
Its not the G.I. Joe we have known--certainly not if you compare it to the traditional looks, but its sure is damn cool on its own. I don't think fans would have taken it to where it is now, if they had any input.

But you know what? this might be the kind of question to put to a Hasbro Roundtable sometime: Just how much fan input influences the line at any given point?

[kingofpain26]

Have you notice the one big thing about POC??

Its military themeing is essentially non-existent. Its thrown its design hat squarely into the arena of pure military fantasy, and strongly influenced by game designs--there isn't a realistic military design in POC--save for the COBRA Shock -Viper--who looks like a SWAT police guy. Little wonder that POC seems to be so popular and striking a chord with people......and you know one of the recurring demands that I have heard fans ask of the Joe designers??
They want more REALISTICALLY-designed characters.
And yet POC steps pretty far away from that.
It almost feels like the directive was given to the designers to go ahead and design the kind of stuff THEY would want, irrespective of any other marketing or consumer concerns.
Its not the G.I. Joe we have known--certainly not if you compare it to the traditional looks, but its sure is damn cool on its own. I don't think fans would have taken it to where it is now, if they had any input.

But you know what? this might be the kind of question to put to a Hasbro Roundtable sometime: Just how much fan input influences the line at any given point?

see, here's where the mistake is...

when people think their personal opinion... is fact.

Arrow, you seemt o think POC stepped away from Military realism...

MOST people completely disagree with you.

...if anything, a lot of people think they have ADDED realism into the designs.

However Sonnilion. Arrow pretty much hit the nail on the head with the "fickle and cheap" label of Joe fans:

How many people "wait until sales and clearance" for items? this may work in favor of the consumer, but it eventually works against us, as retailers will refuse to buy product if it won't sell for a profit (which is why a lot of Wal-marts and K-mart refuse to carry POC at all.)
people complained that Hasbro doesn't listen to them, because they didnt make Low Light. yet now they're making them...and people are complaining that he's overrated.
also, we are a fickle lot... People on EVERY board complained about how lame and stupid a character Big Lob is...
...yet he's one of the first club Membership figures to completely sell out.

....somebody was lying...

[ARROW]

See, here's where the mistake is...

when people think their personal opinion... is fact.

Arrow, you seemt o think POC stepped away from Military realism...

MOST people completely disagree with you.

...if anything, a lot of people think they have ADDED realism into the designs

Realism? Or detail?

Let's not get caught up in debating what are "facts", let's call these observations...shall we? My point was in trying to strive for accuracy--I'm looking at what is, not at what i want it to be.

I think its the detail ( or perhaps, more specifically; intricacy) over realism. None of the Joes looks anything like a modern uniformed soldier, not even a special forces soldier. There's very little that is realistic about them, aside from how things like weapons or pouches are molded. The designs are as fantastic as the colourful characters from Metal Gear Solid, or perhaps the characters from Halo--who bear more of a comic-book sensibility intermingled with extrapolations of real world military stuff, and fairly exotic stuff at that.
And we are not even discussing COBRAs characters in this either.
The designs are eye-candy to be sure, very detailed & intricate and visually striking......but they are a mish-mash of gear and they seem to have the usual 1 in 10 or so ratio of realistic versus fantastic that GIJOE is well known for.
Giving a figure an M-4 with an Aimpoint scope and forward grip on it doesn't make the whole character realistic.

One can make a hash of the "realism" inherent in POC with not a lot of insight into military knowledge.
A rail gun for Beachhead00and urban combat specialist now?
That's fantasy, but its the great "10 minutes further into the future" kind of fantasy that makes GIJOE so appealing, and its a DETAILED weapon for that figure to boot.
Beachhead has bare ammo clips molded to his vest and legs........that's not realistic.....because real clips would be fouled with dirt and crud. Real ammo clips are put into a pouch and fastened to the web gear or vest. The character has about enough stuff to fight a war all on his own, gas mask, dive fins, and he's got an organic pattern ( brown/black tiger stripe??) camouflage uniform on for an urban environ??? He's got a lot of what is called "high-speed" gear and some "low speed" stuff, but not a lot of it makes much sense given how his (vague) mission is described. That's typical for GIJOE.
I'm not going to dissect each character/figure, as there is no point.
GIJOE has always unabashedly mixed fantasy with "realism"-- for every real-looking Leatherneck or Footloose in the original RAH line, you'd get the "out-to-lunch" Sci-fi or Psyche-Out--and POC is no different ( and most incarnations of GIJOE have followed suit with this kind of design philosophy). Probably the most "realistic" looking figure is Dusty......but I think anyone would be hard-pressed to find a photo of a contemporary soldier in a get-up like that. He's an extrapolation of a modern soldier........a fantasy.

[Sonneilon]

For the most part, I like the direction POC has gone. The Dukes have been pretty darn worthy even if it falls under 'fantasy military' or whatever. But G.I. Joe's always been like that, like Arrow pointed out. It's too bad it'll be ending soon in favor of Renegades. (since I'm not really getting into it and I'm very reserved about what the toys could look like, it'll mean I can take a break from buying Joes and concentrate on the diostories instead. That's not a bad thing.)

And Pain, put me under the "Big Lob is a doof" crowd. I wouldn't waste my money on him (just as I wouldn't for rotating-waist/kick attack Snake Eyes, shirtless Stormy or Coil Crusher). But I'm guessing collectors bought him up just to complete their collection. Or it's a niche item and 'rare'. Doesn't mean they like or hate him, it's just something they gotta have.

[ARROW]

It's too bad it'll be ending soon in favor of Renegades.

At the risk of sounding like I'm correcting people all the time ( which I don't want).......................but did you not hear?

Hasbro has said that POC WILL continue, and that Renegades will be worked into it with the SAME detail and styling.
POC will not be ending, it might not even be considered to be evolving.......its ongoing!