Authorized fanfic

[General Scarlett]

Since Scott wanted a new thread.......


I would so love to spearhead a sub-division of Hasbro that deals with fanfic. There are so many talented people out there who have talent that would fuel the line through this medium.

C'mon Hasbro!!

[LordEd1976]

Not a bad idea. It can also serve as a way to spot potential future writers for official Joe comics

[ARROW]

Not to be a spoil sport, but there can be a host of problems with this--because if there ever is a story inadvertently duplicated it can lead to rights issues. This is why a lot of creative companies do not open the doors to sanctioned efforts like this. All it takes is one lawsuit over who owns a story, and who gets to make money off it, and the whole thing blows up.
Personally, I'm not a fan of fan-fiction--mostly because it tends to not be well-written.
I've always found that the folks that are going to do this stuff professionally, who were meant to do this stuff......they find a way to get in.

I say keep it unofficial and unattached and it'll stay fun.

[pbarny]

Not to be a spoil sport, but there can be a host of problems with this--because if there ever is a story inadvertently duplicated it can lead to rights issues. This is why a lot of creative companies do not open the doors to sanctioned efforts like this. All it takes is one lawsuit over who owns a story, and who gets to make money off it, and the whole thing blows up.
Personally, I'm not a fan of fan-fiction--mostly because it tends to not be well-written.
I've always found that the folks that are going to do this stuff professionally, who were meant to do this stuff......they find a way to get in.

I say keep it unofficial and unattached and it'll stay fun.

What about getting a publishing company lined up, and making Gen Scarlett the director of continuity (if there is one)? In other words, licensed property.

[Werecat]

While and interesting proposition, it will never happen.

Fan-fiction is a dead end, because there would be no arc or established design that would fit in with Hasbro's theme, no unified style, and there would be too many different perspectives on the 'Joe universe.

That, and 99% of all fan fiction is crap, it's not taken seriously in the literary community, it's full of Mary Sues or the writer's desire to see Lady Jaye and Scarlett F/F, or other slash stuff.

Not to mention all the legal work and liability provisions.

Dio stories may be a different matter because it limits the abuse one could take (i.e., no nude scenes), and it gives a clear visual reference of the story so it would be easy to edit or see. But unlicensed fan fiction by unprofessional or unpublished amateurs is not something we'll likely ever see backed up by Hasbro.

Heck, some companies even shut down NFP (Not For Profit) fan fiction as a trademark violation.

[General Scarlett]

Blah...blah...blah.....


I *know* all the practical and legal pratfalls of fanfic-and I still want it to be an idea that gets tossed around the table. It can't harm anything.......and as pbarny stated, give me the 'keys to the kingdom' and make the rules specific.



Just because its not what you want to read doesn't mean that there aren't others out there who would......not Harry Potter legions, but there's ALWAYS somebody somewhere who loves to stretch the imagination boundaries


And ARROW? Hun, I've been trying to 'break in' for a while......I just don't *know* the right people apparently

[Lt Storm]

Well, I'm not going to run down fanfiction, everyone's taste is subject. To say its all crap isn't fair, especially if you are someone who writes it. Some may not be "Bestseller" quality but its more having fun in doing it and sharing your stories with people.

But here's what I was thinking on the subject. Some people have created their own characters and worked them into the "Joeverse". If Hasbro were to maybe use some of those fan made characters and had them make a cameo in the comic or exclusive action figure would be sweet. They could contact said person, say "Hey we'd like to put your character in a story. You'd retain rights and we'll give you creator credit" and whatever legal. It's been done before, DC had a create-a-character contest and the winners character got featured in JLA...who was killed off...but hey still cool.

[ARROW]

And ARROW? Hun, I've been trying to 'break in' for a while......I just don't *know* the right people apparently

Keep trying then. Perseverance is the key here--and keep getting your work out there into the public eye.
If you lack the connections in the biz, you can make them notice you by making connection directly with the audience. A talent that is getting 50,000 to 100,000 views of their work on-line will be seen as an asset working on a book--publishers will come to YOU in such cases.
Just do not give up.

[Werecat]

Blah...blah...blah.....

No one's holding your hand and forcing you to be here, so if this discussion it’s too blasé for you, feel free to find other threads that tell you what you want to hear instead of the reality of the situation.

Just because its not what "you" want to read doesn't mean that there aren't others out there who would......not Harry Potter legions, but there's ALWAYS somebody somewhere who loves to stretch the imagination boundaries

It has nothing to do what "I" want to read or not. (Not that you would have any clue to "my" reading habits.) I'm simply stating what to expect. Sure, it's fun to play "let's pretend my fiction is good enough to get noticed" but I don't want anyone to get their hopes up or egos stroked by unrealistic faux expectations that will likely never materialize even if they did have good stuff.

Hun, I've been trying to 'break in' for a while......I just don't *know* the right people apparently.

Well, if you don't have an agent, you probably never will. That's what separates the professional from the amateurs. Same with having a writing portfolio. But even if you did, that's no guarantee. I would wager almost all the 'Joe fans, Transformers fans, MOTU fans, or other franchise-based fans would want their ideas put into prose in an official capacity, but you need a system to weed them out. Not to mention there's already a pecking order in potential prospects Hasbro would want to use, and no-names are not on the list unless Hasbro is accepting general admissions from the public.

Getting the foot in the door for licensed fiction is hard enough, but since fan fict is not directly controlled by Hasbro or their legal department; and since ownership rights would be contested because there is no payment, fan fict is even murkier. Besides, they allow us to write all the fan fict we want without them being involved or making a commitment. All they have to do is sit back and see what happens. Since they are not attached or have any official stake in things, they can disavow anything that's objectionable, or claim "inspiration props" for something that does catch on. (I.e. Halo's Red vs. Blue)

Well, I'm not going to run down fanfiction, everyone's taste is subject. To say its all crap isn't fair, especially if you are someone who writes it. Some may not be "Bestseller" quality but its more having fun in doing it and sharing your stories with people.

I agree. I never said it was all crap. Given there are thousands upon thousands of fan stories out there, several hundred are probably great reads. But by no stretch of the imagination is the majority of fan fiction considered "good" by any contemporary standards of written prose. If it was considered good, it wouldn't have the negative stigma is has now.

But here's what I was thinking on the subject. Some people have created their own characters and worked them into the "Joeverse". If Hasbro were to maybe use some of those fan made characters and had them make a cameo in the comic or exclusive action figure would be sweet. They could contact said person, say "Hey we'd like to put your character in a story. You'd retain rights and we'll give you creator credit" and whatever legal. It's been done before, DC had a create-a-character contest and the winners character got featured in JLA...who was killed off...but hey still cool.

I concur it would be very cool, but logically, why would they? Why would John Warden or Richard Woodhouse or any other person working on the G.I. Joe line want to see your or my characters in print or show up in a cameo over their own? They're the ones getting paid to give us new characters, and when half of their own creations don't see the light of day, I don't think they're going to be cool with a non-Hasbro unpaid fan's creation popping up over their own official one.

It is also extremely unlikely Hasbro would ever let an individual retain rights to any of their intellectual property, unless they were leasing a license idea from an outside entity---Sgt. Slaughter, Street Fighter, a contest, or that kind of thing. For example, even though the Star Wars fan-made Katie Johnson R2-KT was made, Hasbro and LucasFilm still owned it.

Furthermore, why would they let someone keep the rights? They have nothing to gain by doing that, but much to loose. They didn't let Larry Hama keep his creations. They didn't let Josh Blaylock or Chuck Dixon keep theirs. Keep in mind Hasbro owns G.I. Joe, and the brand is not in the public domain. Therefore we technically infringe upon their trademark every time we use any aspect of G.I. Joe in fan fiction without their consent. Now granted NFP sites are relatively harmless, and actually act to promote them---so leeway is taken. But as Larry Hama once put it, "Hasbro own the sandbox and toys, they just let me play in it."

Besides, if you had something they liked, they probably wouldn't bother asking you. They'd could just take it and alter it enough so it wasn't a copyright infringement. I.e., Sgt. Savage = Sgt. Rock. Heck, a few years ago a certain individual who used to post here claimed Hasbro had stolen some of his custom designs when he had them showcased at the JoeCon. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I don't know.

I don't want to be a downer, but let's be realistic here. Yeah, talking about it or entertaining the fantasy aspect is fine, but don’t expect it to happen.

[General Scarlett]

Duder, I started this thread........don't attempt to 'dumb me down' ok?

It is indeed called 'discussion'.....so discuss-don't heavy hand what others have to say, how 'bout that??

[LordEd1976]

I can't remember if it was Star Wars, Star Trek, or both but I seem to recall a series of novels that were short-story collections written by fans. Perhaps something like that for GIJoe? Mind you, this may mean you can't do a story where Big LOb is killed by Raptor's hawks and chances are you can't write that Duke/Scarlett, Scarlett/Snakes-Eyes, Falcon/Jinx, Bombstrike/Ice Cream Soldier wedding fic you've always wanted to. But I'm sure someone here like GS or General Hawk can come up with something.

[ARROW]

Well, if you don't have an agent, you probably never will. That's what separates the professional from the amateurs.

You don't need an agent to break in.
I've spent 25+ years in the cartoon biz without one.
Most pro writers don't use them either, except where they seek to write only certain kinds of material, or if they are earning more than $100,000 a year. If you earn any less than that as a writer and using an agent, you are throwing your money away to a middleman that isn't serving you.

Getting into pro writing is about demonstrating you can write material that people want to read.
To that end, getting one's work under the noses of readers is more important at the early stages than finding a publisher. The internet is a great tool for this, because your potential reach is global--hence your audience is greater than the reach of most printed publications anyway.
Representation comes after reputation, they say. Build on the reputation first.

But that said, to me fan press is for fun. Not to be taken seriously, but can be treated seriously. For about 10 years now, I've mused over my own idea, called Fanboy Comics--which was intended to merge disparate properties together in fun ways. The downside is that they would be unlicensed and in total violation of trademark/copyrights. Professionally, I know that's a no-no--privately, as a fan, I see it as a fun exploration.
What am I talking about? Most of it would be a "versus" kind of matchup; take Godzilla and pit him against the Iron Giant, or Star Trek meets the Silver Surfer ( and when you meet the Surfer, "you know who" is not far behind...)... that sort of fannish thing.

There's potentially great stories in that kind of mishmash, even though its VERY unlikely they'd ever be done in a real sense.
Fan fic works best in that sort of realm.

Where I think the pitfall lies in in those fans that mistakenly think that they can produce better stories than the pros that are paid to handle the material from the source. I've run into a few of them.......fans that are so caught up that they think because they consume, they have ownership of the material, and that their viewpoint is the one that preserves the material. THAT I disagree with because, rightly or wrongly, the source creators view is the one that holds sway--even if WE don't like it. ( That's why if George Lucas says that Greedo shoots first, we grudgingly have to respect that call--even if we do not like it).
Writing professionally, or aspiring to write professionally means to understand that we will be handed crap at some point, we will be forced to uphold crap, forced to re-write good ideas into awful crap.
Is not just being handed the keys to the kingdom and given carte blanche.
As a fan, consumer and creator, I'm REALLY fussy when it comes to fan-fics because I demand the same criteria as if I'm reading pro works. I almost never see it because its usually just someone pissing around with a keyboard etc. But the ones that can show they got it........those folks, I sit up and take notice of.
If they can respect the strengths and the weaknesses of the material.........hell, take the weaknesses and deftly make something out of them that works......then its usually worth taking the time to read it.

[ARROW]

Besides, if you had something they liked, they probably wouldn't bother asking you. They'd could just take it and alter it enough so it wasn't a copyright infringement. I.e., Sgt. Savage = Sgt. Rock. Heck, a few years ago a certain individual who used to post here claimed Hasbro had stolen some of his custom designs when he had them showcased at the JoeCon. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I don't know.

Great big fallacy there: why "steal" something like an idea and risk a lawsuit that will cost them a large sum of money, when they can hire the actual person and pay them a 10th of the amount for the idea? Most large businesses do NOT operate the way you suggest, at least not cognitively--the risk is simply too great.
Unrelated simultaneous, ( or unconscious) co-creation is a known thing--it happens all the time--but its seldom a conspiracy of theft against one or the other.

[Werecat]

Duder, I started this thread........don't attempt to 'dumb me down' ok?

It is indeed called 'discussion'.....so discuss-don't heavy hand what others have to say, how 'bout that??

Certainly nothing is dumbed down, but if we're discussing "what if" scenarios, we need to discuss all aspects, not just the fluffy ones.

Furthermore, how is any of this "heavy handed?" It's simply discourse. Pro and con. People agree, people disagree. That's what a "forum" is for. But there is no heavy handedness. If you feel slighted by someone bringing up the most likely outcome of a Hasbro response to proposed official fan fiction, then that may be oversensitivity on your part, or you reading too much into the reply and not looking at the simple point it was intended as. Either way, your assumption is pretty far off base.

Great big fallacy there: why "steal" something like an idea and risk a lawsuit that will cost them a large sum of money, when they can hire the actual person and pay them a 10th of the amount for the idea? Most large businesses do NOT operate the way you suggest, at least not cognitively--the risk is simply too great.

A fallacy?! How so? It happens all the time! My God, go to the WGAW legal site and read through all the pending lawsuits on alleged stolen ideas, and you’ll get a migraine!

I’m certainly not saying Hasbro would do something like that, but this happens every day. If you have an honest corporate entity, then we have no worries. But if you have an unscrupulous one; especially in a toxic economic climate, why would they pay someone for an idea when they can steal it for free, repackage or tweak it enough for their legal team to assure them they won’t get sued, and then market and profit from it? They just cut out the middleman and the expense from him or her. The risk is not a factor if you have good attorneys, because they will argue very few modern business ideas are truly unique. (Which is true.) They’ll also say no matter what the product idea is, someone else has probably already thought of it and may have already implemented, or has already applied for a patent pending (though this is in a scope far larger than the topic at hand). I certainly disagree with this legal lying, but this is a common practice.

In my family's case, we had intellectual property stolen in 1999 when a former associate tried stealing our national business logo by switching a few things around to trick people into thinking they were still apart of our organization when they were not. Fortunately the person who did it was inept and didn’t change it enough to differentiate from our logo, so they lost the case when we sued them. But had they done a better job at making a circle a square, different text, or replacing colors and borders, they could have gotten away with it.

But as I said, this happens all the time, especially when predatory institutions prey upon amateurs who don't know the laws but are eager to market their wares. Just watch cable TV some night and you’ll probably see tons of those invention submission company commercials claiming they’ll protect your idea and not steal it.

Or better yet, check out this site:

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercr ... gGuide.pdf

You don't need an agent to break in.

That's true. Some get lucky, some go to Lulu.com. But an agent helps to open many more doors than trying to go it alone.

Most pro writers don't use them either, except where they seek to write only certain kinds of material, or if they are earning more than $100,000 a year. If you earn any less than that as a writer and using an agent, you are throwing your money away to a middleman that isn't serving you.

I agree that most pro writers are freelance---I am. When I was approached by TopCow to write a comic, I didn't use an agent, but I did have my attorney sort through all the legal junk. But I disagree that you're throwing your money away if you have one even at projects under $100,000. It really all depends on the situation at hand, and the agenting fees associated with the firm you work with. Sometimes the more lucrative deals even under $100K require representation, and that's when the extra boost comes into play. Hell, some of these cheapo script mags won't even take your work unless you have some sort of portfolio and representation.

To that end, getting one's work under the noses of readers is more important at the early stages than finding a publisher. The internet is a great tool for this, because your potential reach is global--hence your audience is greater than the reach of most printed publications anyway.

I agree 100%! Thanks to DeviantArt, I landed two projects that I wouldn't have gotten if my clients hadn't seen my material online.

Writing professionally, or aspiring to write professionally means to understand that we will be handed crap at some point, we will be forced to uphold crap, forced to re-write good ideas into awful crap.

Ain't that the truth. Even more when you're an editor.

As a fan, consumer and creator, I'm REALLY fussy when it comes to fan-fics because I demand the same criteria as if I'm reading pro works. I almost never see it because its usually just someone pissing around with a keyboard etc. But the ones that can show they got it........those folks, I sit up and take notice of.

I concur. However, with that said, I still hold the opinion that it is very unlikely Hasbro would ever set up a site and promote a pool of fan fict writers to officially represent them as a company. Not when they have plenty of in-house people that could do the same.

[wraith76]

This is what I think is wrong with a lot of fanfic:
a) the author has a poor grasp of the English language
b) they don't know how to structure a sentence
c) they have trouble understanding the concept of paragraphs, resulting in long, unreadable passages
d) they have no regard for spelling, punctuation or grammar, and are confused by words that sound the same, but are spelt differently and have different meanings
e) they have a limited vocabulary, resulting in an inability to express themselves properly and coherently
f) no "ear" for dialogue
g)the story lacks logic because the author failed to think it through
h) they have the ideas, but not the talent
i) the author seems to think they don't have to make an effort
and j) they confuse nouns with verbs.

Granted, there is good fanfic out there, but from I've seen thus far, it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
Would it hurt to make more of an effort?