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Joe*Battlelines
The "Old School" Edition
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TheVileOne
Sergeant First Class
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Austin, TX
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 Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Jmacq1 wrote: | | The key difference is that the US Military was not the central premise and main selling point of Transformers. Nor was the movie marketed on its' military connections (at all). In fact the trailers would have made it appear that the military's main role in the movie was to be fodder for the Decepticons. |
All that really means is that the elements can be kept in and don't have to downplayed in the movie itself.
In the actual movie itself the American military was more than just fodder for the decepticons and were able to handle them just fine without the autobots.
| Quote: | | Trying to claim that G.I. Joe will be just as successful because Transformers had the US military in it and still did relatively well overseas doesn't quite add up. A lot of people overseas might not even have been aware of how prevalent the US military was in the movie until they were sitting in the theater watching it. |
Yet for the movie to do that well overseas, OBVIOUSLY people that saw it overseas and probably saw it again didn't hate it that much. $354 million overseas and over $665 million worldwide is not chump change.
| Quote: | | You can't really "fool" the overseas markets with Joe (if they made it a strictly US operation). The military would be front-and-center in both the film itself and the marketing leading up to it. |
So then what's the solution? Take out the American military entirely.
Hey here's an idea, how about in the Captain America movie, he's called Captain Planet and he has all the flags of all the countries in his costume and he solves problems through words and talking rather than fighting. Instead of a shield he has a briefcase, pen, paper, and cell phone, and he can say, "THE PLANET IS YOURS!"
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TheVileOne
Sergeant First Class
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Jmacq1 wrote: | | The key difference is that the US Military was not the central premise and main selling point of Transformers. Nor was the movie marketed on its' military connections (at all). In fact the trailers would have made it appear that the military's main role in the movie was to be fodder for the Decepticons. |
All that really means is that the elements can be kept in and don't have to downplayed in the movie itself.
In the actual movie itself the American military was more than just fodder for the decepticons and were able to handle them just fine without the autobots.
| Quote: | | Trying to claim that G.I. Joe will be just as successful because Transformers had the US military in it and still did relatively well overseas doesn't quite add up. A lot of people overseas might not even have been aware of how prevalent the US military was in the movie until they were sitting in the theater watching it. |
Yet for the movie to do that well overseas, OBVIOUSLY people that saw it overseas and probably saw it again didn't hate it that much. $354 million overseas and over $665 million worldwide is not chump change.
| Quote: | | You can't really "fool" the overseas markets with Joe (if they made it a strictly US operation). The military would be front-and-center in both the film itself and the marketing leading up to it. |
So then what's the solution? Take out the American military entirely.
Hey here's an idea, how about in the Captain America movie, he's called Captain Planet and he has all the flags of all the countries in his costume and he solves problems through words and talking rather than fighting. Instead of a shield he has a briefcase, pen, paper, and cell phone, and he can say, "THE PLANET IS YOURS!"
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mr. peasant
Corporal
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| TheVileOne wrote: | All that really means is that the elements can be kept in and don't have to downplayed in the movie itself.
In the actual movie itself the American military was more than just fodder for the decepticons and were able to handle them just fine without the autobots. |
True. But the important thing is that in its marketing, they did not indicate how much of a role the American soldiers would have in the movie. Hence, people going in weren't aware going in. G.I. Joe would be different because the audience would know that the entire movie is going to focus specifically on the soldiers. To do otherwise would be far worse than making it an international group.
| TheVileOne wrote: | | Yet for the movie to do that well overseas, OBVIOUSLY people that saw it overseas and probably saw it again didn't hate it that much. $354 million overseas and over $665 million worldwide is not chump change. |
Not quite true. While I don't know how it is in European countries, but I can say that in most third world countries where incomes are smaller and people generally have less spending money for entertainment, people tend not to view the same movies multiple times. In fact, the average person here only goes to the cinema about once or twice a month. Obviously, some do but the vast majority do not.
| TheVileOne wrote: | | So then what's the solution? Take out the American military entirely. |
Not so. Thus far, I don't think anyone has ever considered taking out the American military in its entirety. Chances are, the international G.I. Joe will comprise a fair number of American characters. It's just adding characters from other countries that the filmmakers are thinking about. |
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Lt. Falcon
Private
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm... this kinda gets my goat... I guess the only thing I really can say is that Hasbro finds a way to ruin everything and they always seem to forget G.I. Joe is G.I. Joe. If Hasbro/Movie Studio can't realize what G.I. Joe is and isn't and fells the erge to give into the PC police and international anti-Americanism I say thats fine just don't call it G.I. Joe call it Action Force or Action Man.
I personally will not go see this movie if it looks anything like a live action Sigma Six or that 90's movie they claimed was Street Fighter. That would be a complete waste of flim and surely will tank at the box office. And there is no doubt in my mind G.I. Joe, if it is to be sucessful, Hasbro has to look at the US market FRIST. Because ticket sells in other countries will not be good enough to save this sinking ship if they go with Action Man/ Action Force instead of the G.I. Joe we remember from our childhoods. I am not saying they have to take issue #1 and make it into a movie or anything all I am saying they have to look at it like DD did with Reloaded. No need to reinvent the wheel just put some rims on it and take it into present day. And If you must have an iternation presence have the Joe team team up with Action Force... Hell, Action Force had some of their own orginal characters if I remember correctly use them and Action Man.
To me for G.I. Joe to be a sucessful movie it has to be done in one of two ways:
1) A serious suspence thriller "24" style small covert ops team taking on the terrorist orginazation of Cobra bent on Attacking a major city with intelligent well developed heros and villians (best option)
Or
2) A Starship troopers over the top adventure SCI-FI Military farse type movie (Grounded in the current world not with Spaceships and aliens of course) with well developed characters, satitire and witt and adult humor
I don't expect them to do either... I expect Sigma Six with a English Flint and a German Duke and a hokey plot for world domination and a bunch of buffoning goones for cobra, hell if it is like Sigma Six the Joe's will be buffons too- well, we will see in 2009... I just hope they don't ruin it and really put some thought into it- nott just something you think will not offend those overseas.... G.I. Joe is a US military group and taking out the military offends me- Just keep that in mind Hasbro |
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mr. peasant
Corporal
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Lt. Falcon wrote: | | Hmmm... this kinda gets my goat... I guess the only thing I really can say is that Hasbro finds a way to ruin everything and they always seem to forget G.I. Joe is G.I. Joe. If Hasbro/Movie Studio can't realize what G.I. Joe is and isn't and fells the erge to give into the PC police and international anti-Americanism I say thats fine just don't call it G.I. Joe call it Action Force or Action Man. |
Considering nobody knows any specific, confirmed to be true details regarding the script let alone seen a finished product, how do you know that Hasbro and Paramount are going to 'ruin everything'? Just because there has been a slight alteration, regardless of reasoning doesn't automatically make the movie bad.
And on another note, why do some people equate a deemphasis on the American element with anti-Americanism? They are very different in that one is politically neutral while the other is an active and blatant hatred towards America and its people. Thus far, the movie has yet to do the latter.
| Lt. Falcon wrote: | | And there is no doubt in my mind G.I. Joe, if it is to be sucessful, Hasbro has to look at the US market FRIST. |
Based on the success of previous movies (Transformers), more money came from overseas markets as opposed to the U.S.. Additionally, for any chance of a successful movie, producers have to cater to both, the U.S. and international market, possibly with a greater emphasis on the latter since it is a far larger demographic and thus represents greater potential revenue.
| Lt. Falcon wrote: | | Because ticket sells in other countries will not be good enough to save this sinking ship if they go with Action Man/ Action Force instead of the G.I. Joe we remember from our childhoods. |
Actually, the only people who are in strong favor of a purely American team (to the point of refusing to watch said movie) are a small group of hardcore fans. Almost everyone else are in favor of an international team or neutral on the topic. And considering the entire collector community wasn't able to support and sustain the G.I. Joe line, both during its 3 3/4" days as well as the new Sigma 6 line (Hasbro has gone on record saying collector sales makes only a small percentage of the latter), what hope does a multi-million movie have of relying on said group? It makes much better business sense to instead focus on the international group, who may or may not take offense of a movie that portrays the U.S. as the sole hero and champion against global terrorism while the rest of the world is either helpless, indifferent or worse.
| Lt. Falcon wrote: | | And If you must have an iternation presence have the Joe team team up with Action Force... Hell, Action Force had some of their own orginal characters if I remember correctly use them and Action Man. |
If that's the case, how is it different from simply making G.I. Joe an international team? The only things this accomplish are removing/reducing the focus of the movie on G.I. Joe and complicate the plot by introducing two separate, independent-from-one-another elite teams of counterterrorists. Not to mention, a country-specific team would look and be expected to be inferior to an international, concerted effort with a wider pool or resources, talent and skills to call on. |
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Fyrefly
Conflict Resolution Specialist
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 237
Location: Semi-Retired in Belize
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| TheVileOne wrote: | | In the actual movie itself the American military was more than just fodder for the decepticons and were able to handle them just fine without the autobots. |
Uh... no.
And... no again.
I dunno which Transformers movie you saw, but perhaps you could link me a pirated version to watch? Because the one that I saw had the American military get smoked by a single Decepticon. Not just a couple of dudes with rifles, either. A supposed "special operations" compound that had armor units - which as near as I can tell were there strictly for eye candy and also to demonstrate the Decepticon's strength. That thing was literally tossing around tanks.
And further, when the "refugees" made it out of the camp, one of their members got wiped out via one of the movie's only graphic scenes. About five minutes later they're in a camp full of Arabs who joined in the fray, and then the guys called in 2x A10s and 1x AC130 to help deal. And all they got was a lousy tail segment.
So please. Enlighten me. Because I think I missed the alternate-ending, where the Autobots showed up and Josh Duhamel said "Sorry, big truck. Go home."
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heavy_water
Greenshirt
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: Thanks, Joe Battlelines |
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I'm reading what people have written.
You know, on other Joe message boards (there's one in particular that you likely know the name of) the hall monitors, I mean, moderators, won't allow a discussion among adults like this one if it's related to anything about politics. Which makes this board a whole lot better.
On an unrelated note, and because people are talking about it, I saw the Transformers in a Chinese movie theatre. It was in English with Chinese subtitles. And it was censored by the Chinese gov't. They were at a point in the movie where the Pentagon gets a virus from the Decepticons. The general says in the film, "Do we know who's doing this? The Russians? The Chinese?" Right where he says "the Chinese", it was silently bleeped out, like bad words on a song on the radio. |
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TheVileOne
Sergeant First Class
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: |
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The American military smoked Scorponok.
One soldier on his own busted down the chopper at the end while he was scuffling with the autobots.
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M6D
Magnum6Delta.com
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks, Joe Battlelines |
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| heavy_water wrote: | I'm reading what people have written.
You know, on other Joe message boards (there's one in particular that you likely know the name of) the hall monitors, I mean, moderators, won't allow a discussion among adults like this one if it's related to anything about politics. Which makes this board a whole lot better. |
Its a recently changed policy on this forum.
http://www.joebattlelines.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12650 |
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Frozen Custard Trooper
Greenshirt
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 34
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mr. peasant wrote: | | Actually, the only people who are in strong favor of a purely American team (to the point of refusing to watch said movie) are a small group of hardcore fans. Almost everyone else are in favor of an international team or neutral on the topic. |
I'm curious where you heard this. Was there a poll on Hasbro.com or an article in the New York Times or something? If possible post a link, I'd like to know what the percentages were.
If the movie producers want to put an international spin on it, why not just include the actual international team members: like Budo, Jinx, Big Bear and Big Ben? Or team them up with the October Guard. (That would be awesome!) I don't want to see a movie where Duke is Dutch, and Stalker hails from Ethiopia. THAT will be what turns this film into a direct to video "Street Fighter" sequel.
Also it HAS to have Cobra Commander in it, even if he's just a shadowy villain in the background advising Destro. I don't want to see a movie where Destro is the founder of the Cobra organization.
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M6D
Magnum6Delta.com
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Swedish operatives... Lady Jaye, Bombshell, and Cover Girl  |
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Mech-Viper
Sergeant
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| M6D wrote: | | I wouldn't mind seeing the Swedish operatives(in swimsuits)... Lady Jaye, Bombshell, and Cover Girl |
fixed it for you |
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Chainsaw Viper
Master Sergeant
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 941
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sweddish Bikini team with machine guns vs a supervillian-ish terrorist organization? How could that NOT be a blockbuster hit!?!
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Fyrefly
Conflict Resolution Specialist
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 237
Location: Semi-Retired in Belize
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheVileOne wrote: | | The American military smoked Scorponok. |
I do believe you've seen the alternate ending, dude. Because the one that I watched clearly had Scorponok get up and burrow away afterward.
| TheVileOne wrote: | | One soldier on his own busted down the chopper at the end while he was scuffling with the autobots. |
Right, you've said it yourself. Key words - while he was scuffling with the Autobots. So, he didn't just accomplish this feat by himself.
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"Show Thine Enemies No Mercy."
wtf-pwning n00bs since April 1998.
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Jmacq1
Sergeant Major
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1889
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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It's not going to be entirely international. Duke, for example, is almost without a doubt going to be both American and the "leader" (or at least co-leader with "Action Man" if he makes it into the movie). I'd imagine there'll be other American Joes in the group as well. But yes, a couple of the bigger names are likely to get de-Americanized, because most of the "International" Joes are too obscure for Hollywood's taste. They want the characters that people will recognize the general "look" and names of.
So yeah, we might well get a British Flint, an Australian Scarlett, or a French Gung-Ho, etc... I bet they'll leave Snake-Eyes a complete mystery as far as his origins go. But they're not taking all the Americans off of the team. |
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